Al Hilli/Mollier Chevaline Murders. Hidden French (and other) connections.
Michael Norton
Sunday,
shortly before 16 hours, a car traveling on a mountain road at a
place called Flumet Aval, in the town of Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle,
was off the road to make a barrel and to stop a couple of feet below.
The driver, the sole occupant, was ejected and was found below the
embankment by firefighters Val d’Arly,
Ugine
and Albertville, who could do nothing to
revive.
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2014/10/26/saint-nicolas-la-chapelle-sortie-de-route-mortelle
La communauté de brigades d’Albertville poursuit son enquête pour définir les circonstances exactes de l’accident qui a coûté la vie, dimanche, à un automobiliste du Val d’Arly, Nicolas Mollier-Thomas. Il n’y aurait pas eu de témoin et le conducteur était seul à bord de sa voiture quand celle-ci a quitté la route avant d’effectuer plusieurs tonneaux. Le père de famille, 39 ans, originaire de Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle et domicilié à Héry-sur-Ugine, circulait sur une petite route de montagne au lieu-dit Flumet d’Aval, au-dessus du pont de Flon, à Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle, quand l’accident s’est produit. Il a été éjecté de son véhicule et était décédé à l’arrivée des sapeurs-pompiers et du Smur d’Albertville.
Translation: Albertville brigades community is continuing its investigation to determine the exact circumstances of the accident that killed Sunday in a motorist Val d'Arly, Nicolas Mollier Thomas. There would be no witnesses and the driver was the sole occupant of the car when it left the road before making several barrels. The father, 39, from Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle and lives in Hery-sur-Ugine, traveling on a mountain road in the locality Flumet Aval above Flon bridge Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle, when the accident occurred. He was ejected from the vehicle and died at the arrival of firefighters and Albertville Smur.
Community brigades Albertville continuing its investigation to determine the exact circumstances of the accident which claimed the life Sunday, a motorist Val d’Arly, Nicolas Mollier Thomas. There would be no witnesses and the driver was alone in his car when it left the road before making several barrels. The father, 39, from Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle and lives in Hery sur Ugine, traveling on a mountain road at a place called Flumet Aval, above the bridge Flon Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle, when the accident occurred. He was ejected from his vehicle and died at the arrival of firefighters and Smur Albertville.
Deceased Nicolas Mollier Thomas https://www.facebook.com/nicolas.mollierthomas?fref=tl_fr_box in Brun type road accident has a familiar look (another) (Think motor cycle helmit) A Mollier and Sylvain though probably not significant.
Q
Nicolas Mollier-Thomas had an address listed in paris as his latest address.
RUE
CARRIERES
78420 CARRIERES-SUR-SEINE
His
fb page also states that he was travelling in 2014. his facebook
friends are from all over the world, particularly french
territories.
it looks as if he was internationally active rather
than locally.
well, where he lived is very close to the DCRI secret service intelligence office in Levallois-Perret.
DCRI
is that branch of the french intelligence that is responsible for the
islamist movements and for counter terrorism. Mohammed Merah worked
for DCRI as an informant.
Of course not all people living in
CARRIERES-SUR-SEINE are working for DCRI. However, a guy from Haute
Savoie from the famous Mollier family who is often travelling abroad
and who has many friends abroad who lives there is somehow suspicious
…
some links for you
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_de_la_s%C3%A9curit%C3%A9_int%C3%A9rieure
http://www.fil-info-france.com/dcri_dst_dgse_rg_direction_centrale_du_renseignement_interieur.htm
another member of the mollier-thomas family working more or less for security:
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/yvan-mollier-thomas/39/85/6a4
http://www.stanley-securite.fr/
Nicolas
Mollier-Thomas is a mid-thirties very local father, who drives over a
bridge/gorge and goes barrel rolling only a mile from his childhood
home between 15.00 hours and 16.00 hours on Sunday afternoon.
This
place Flumet d Aval (one, two or three houses)is virtually the middle
of nowhere.
Let
us say he had been visiting family, maybe his parents, he might have
had a couple of glasses of the red stuff, with their Sunday
lunch,
especially if he was also working/staying in Paris but at
half past three on Sunday afternoon he was then probably going to
visit his children, even if he had been drinking it seems very, very
unlikely he would have just driven off the bridge and barrel rolled
his vehicle so spectacularly that he was ejected and killed, no other
person was apparently present, no other vehicle involved.
O.K. which house do his parents live and which house does his children/wife live?
This is very, very, very, very unlikely to be an accident.
https://www.facebook.com/karen.ouvrierbuffet?fref=tl_fr_box&pnref=lhc_friends
Lives in Héry-Sur-Ugines, Rhone-Alpes, France. Friend of Nicolas Mollier-Thomas on FB. Travelled to Corsica in 2014.
Corsica, Corsica. Oh, yeah. That’s the place where the French Foreign Legion has a base, specifically the unit that the “suicided” ex-member from Ugine who was questioned by police about the Chevaline murders?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Foreign_Parachute_Regiment
obits
http://www.libramemoria.com/avis/le-dauphine/savoie/2014/10/29/avis-nicolas-mollier-thomas?Page=1
Noah et Lou, ses enfants; Karen Ouvrier-Buffet, sa conjointe; Raymonde et Marc Mollier-Thomas, ses parents; Mélanie et Régis, sa sœur et son frère; sa famille et ses amis
ont la tristesse de vous faire part du décès de
Nicolas MOLLIER-THOMAS
survenu à l’âge de 39 ans. La cérémonie religieuse sera célébrée le jeudi 30 octobre 2014, à quinze heures, en l’église de Saint-Nicolas-La-Chapelle. Condoléances sur registre. Cet avis tient lieu de faire-part et de remerciements.
Saint Nicolas-la-Chapelle Flumet Megève
http://www.libramemoria.com/avis/le-dauphine/savoie/2014/10/29/avis-nicolas-mollier-thomas-6449?Page=1
Le
président, les membres du conseil d’administration, les
sociétaires, les salariés de la Coopérative fruitière du Val
d’Arly et de la SICA des Deux Savoie
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/nicolas-nicolas-mollier/61/271/699
maitre
aux en math chez vice rectorat new caledonia
new caledonia fits 100% with the friends and messages on his facebook page.
Bluebird
The only evidence we have so far is the house of jerome ouvrier-buffet in corsica and the visit of his sister Karen in corsica.
We know 100% that Karen Ouvrier-Buffet was the spouse of the deceased Nicholas Mollier-Thomas.
We know that Nicholas Mollier-Thomas worked for the communities near Ugine. He was a mathematicina. On his linkedin profile he says that he worked for the french government.
His second flat was near Paris very close to the french intelligence service headquarters DCRA.
I see that the Mollier-Thomas family has a very strong base in new caledonia. There are quite a lot of them. Nicolas was working in new caledonia for the french government according to his linkedin profile. His fb account shows that he was there and that he had friends in new caledonia.A reason for being there was that wedding:
http://www.carnetdefrance.fr/fairepart/mariage/manuella-mollier-thomas-paul-francois-soucrant-2h6w
But there is also another Mollier-Thomas, all living in Paita next to the capital Noumea.
https://m.facebook.com/aissa.mollierthomas
According to yelp.fr there are only 26 Mollier-Thomas family members existing. This is a pretty small family branch of the Molliers, created by marriage in 1890.
Then
there is Nathalie Mollier-Thomas. She obviously is a close relative
because she is a friend on his facebook page.
Bathalie lives in
Quebec/Canada and runs a tourist agency there.
She also runs a ski
area in france:
http://dirigeant.societe.com/dirigeant/Nathalie.MOLLIER_THOMAS.22685046.html
When we think about new caledonia we must first think about french nuclear testing, the rainbow warrior, greenpeace and french intelligence service.
however, they did more than nuclear testing in new caledonia (mururoa):
I’m having no doubts that french intelligence has got a strong base in new caledonia.
Also new caledonia is the hub for drug transports from south america to australia!http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/newzealand/9774217/Tsunami-bomb-tested-off-New-Zealand-coast.html
correct.
Sigint new caledonia. Actually we are here in cryptographics and they
need mathematicians who work for the government.
That would
include strong NZ and Australian intelligence interests.
And it
would include the job what SAH had. And we still remember one crypto
expert ending in a bag in the UK …..
*Tontouta (New Caledonia). Located on the grounds of the Tontouta naval air base at Noumea on the island of New Caledonia in the South Pacific, construction of this base began in 2001. This station was to be the fifth facility needed to complete DGSE’s global network of satellite communications (SATCOM) intercept sites, with the station’s mission being the intercept of communications traffic being relayed through communications satellites parked in geosynchronous orbit over the Pacific Ocean. As you can see, there are now five large parabolic satellite communications (SATCOM) intercept antennas now functioning at the station.
French
Intelligence
DGSE signals intelligence
Jul 6th, 2013
The “Five Eyes” monitoring and mapping (!!) the Pacific:
http://www.phantomreport.com/five-eyes-monitoring-and-mapping-the-pacific
new caledonia listed once again as an important hub for the five eyes:
In the Pacific, communications are monitored by an installation in New Caledonia which came into operation in 2006. This facility is located at the French military’s naval airbase at Tontouta (New Caledonia’s international airport, outside the capital Noumea). According to Le Monde, “the secret services systematically collect the electromagnetic signals emitted by computers and telephones in France together with the digital flows between France and overseas countries, so the totality of our communications is monitored. Emails, SMS messages, phone calls, access to Facebook, Twitter and more are then stored for years.” The long-term collection of information in these vast computer databases allows the analysis of “metadata”—the pattern of who called whom, the date, time, frequency, or location of the call. While the DGSE can legally monitor overseas traffic, the material is gathered in supercomputers at the DGSE headquarters in the Boulevard Mortier in Paris. Without appropriate legislation, it can then be accessed by domestic intelligence agencies, including the military intelligence agency Direction du renseignement militaire (DRM), domestic spy agencies, customs service and bodies concerned with money laundering.
Mapping the Pacific
Actually, Paita is the next village to “Baie Inaccessable” and the Tontouta Naval Base where the intelligence is situated.
So then we have an address of Nicholas Mollier-Thomas next to the french intelligence headquarters in Paris and in 2014 next to the French Tontouta Spy base in new caledonia. That government mathematician always loved to live close to intelligence headquarters, didnt he?
Mollier-SAH
meeting = transfer of crypto codes?
Crypto codes class 5 are worth
a killer.
A Shia cleric and a former President of Iran, Ali Khamenei is the current Supreme Leader of Iran. During a rare visit to Iranian Kurdistan in 2009, he and his entourage were targeted for surveillance under a high-tech espionage mission involving the analysis and processing of satellite imagery. The operation was jointly conducted by the GCHQ and the NSA.
A guy called Jean Mollier is holding several cryptographic patents . This is just one of those:
https://www.legionpatent.com/patents/4683553/
This guy was also a mathematician crypto specialist:
http://gizmodo.com/5802753/former-nsa-genius-apologizes-for-his-super-spying-software
Plus we remember Gareth Williams.
Jerome
Ouvrier Buffet (brother of N.MT spouse Karen) has a nice
house in Calenzana (corsica).
Address 21 Torra, Calenzana. Visible
in google maps.
Calenzana
is ruled by the famous Guerini mafia family. They come from
Calenzana. The Guerini brothers owned most night clubs and
discotgeques in the cote d’azur, marseille and in other tourist
properties in france. They were also hard into drug
trafficing.
Whenever they had an enemy, that enemy was immediately
assassinated. Most of the times including the enemy’s family and
children.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A8res_Gu%C3%A9rini
http://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Gu%C3%A9rini
Political
mafia affair Guerini.
Hollande and the socialist party in the
middle of a mafia affair.
Court hearings ended close to the date
when SAH and family were killed in “Guerini style”
Just a sidenote
The Guerini mafia from Calenzano (home of jerome ouvrier buffet) worked for the CIA and together with Lucky Luciano. They were accused of organising the JF Kennedy assassination for the american mafia because they were the assassination professionals.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Gu%C3%A9rini
google
translation from french:
A rumor lends him an involvement in the
Kennedy assassination in November 1963. Antoine allegedly recruited
killers to assassinate Kennedy in Marseille on behalf of the American
mafia. One of the killers could be David Christian said the “Beau
Serge”. Sponsors were Carlos Marcello and Santo Trafficante, Jr.
and Sam Giancana latter sharing the same mistress [2], [3] John
Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Here’s
a better article in english. as i said, this is just a sidenote since
jerome ouvrier buffet has a house in the village if the Guerini
family in corsica. Probably just a coincidence. His sister Karen
(spouse of the deceased Nicholas Mollier-Thomas) visited her brother
in corsica recently.
The Guerini family is deep into heroin
trafficing (the french connection) from iran/turkey to marseille and
then to the usa. They worked for the CIA in arms trafficking and in
return were save heroin traffickers.
The French Connection: Did Corsican Guerini Mobsters Kill John F. Kennedy?
http://m.ibtimes.com/french-connection-did-corsican-mobsters-kill-john-f-kennedy-898346
Perhaps
unrelated and just a name coincidence.
But i had searched for
mollier mafia …..
UNITED
STATES of America, Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
Walter MOLLIER,
Defendant-Appellant.
No. 87-1583.
United
States Court of Appeals,
Fifth Circuit.
Aug. 18, 1988.
Appellant Mollier challenges his conviction on counts of conspiring to import and to possess large quantities of marijuana with intent to distribute. Mollier asserts that the evidence was insufficient to sustain the jury’s verdict, that the trial court erred in refusing his instruction on the definition of the word “knowingly,” and that he was denied due process when the government was permitted to introduce evidence relating to certain substantive counts that should have been barred under the doctrine of non-mutual collateral estoppel.
Found at the bottom of a gorge:
Could he be related to Catherine Ouvrier-Buffet of Coiffure Cathy in Ugine, one of the first people to be interviewed on TV about the Chevaline shootings? http://www.mannecy.fr/29263-le-corps-d-yves-ouvrier-buffet-decouvert-au-fond-d-un-gouffre-de-l-arly.html
La gendarmerie d’Ugine rmochyn
I had told this before but it seems that it was forgotten:
the hairdresser cathy ouvrier-buffet wasnt born with that name but she is a Bianco. Grandchild of famous oil magnat Jules Bianco (his Ugine oil company having been strongly connected with Total). She married as Catherine Bianco into the Ouvrier-buffet family.
See:
Famille Bianco Jules (1895-1986), entrepreneur et homme politique,
Croix de guerre 1914-1918, résistant, Président du Conseil général
de Savoie (1956 à 1964)
Lucien Bianco (1930- ), fils de
Jules, historien et sinologue français Bianco
Production
Pétrolière (Total)
oil company: Les Fils de Jules Bianco SA
Secondly,
the Uginese Mollier, Ouvrier-Buffet and Brun families are all
intermarried. Whatever facebook page of one of the family members you
will open you will find relatives with Brun, Mollier and
Ouvrier-Buffet names in all of their facebook pages.echerche Yves
Ouvrier-Buffet, âgé de 58 ans,
qui a disparu de son domicile de
Flumet
http://www.ledauphine.com/savoie/2013/06/08/flumet-appel-a-temoins-apres-la-disparition-d-un-homme-de-58-ans
SAVOY
Flumet:
appeal for witnesses after the disappearance of a 58 year
old man,Yves Ouvrier-Buffet
Wednesday, June 5, 2013, early in the
morning. He was seen walking in the center of the town, and since
that date has not been reviewed. It measures 1.75 m, a balding, a
fairly strong build and was wearing at the time of his disappearance
faded blue jeans and a green T-shirt with long sleeves. Anyone who
can provide information about the disappearance is asked to contact
police at Ugine 04 79 37 30 17
This
community of Flumet, just up the road from Ugine
would seem to be
“HOT SPOT” for people who could be related to some of the
“ACTORS”
in the slaughter of the Horses Incident of two years
ago.
MN
yes.
he was somehow closely related.
Mme Geneviève Ouvrier-Buffet, sa maman, et toute sa famille, ont la tristesse de vous faire part du décès de
Yves OUVRIER-BUFFET
à l’âge de 58ans.La cérémonie religieuse sera célébrée le vendredi 14 juin 2013, à quinze heures,en l’église de Flumet.
Saint-Nicolas-la-Chapelle
Catherine Ouvrier Buffet (the coiffeur) has changed her name recently since she obviously married Jeremy Tronc, a journalist who grew up in Ugine. She’s Catherine Tronc now (nee Ouvrier Buffet).
sorry. made a mistake. that is the hairdresser ouvrier buffet: there is a second one.
https://www.facebook.com/cathy.ouvrierbuffet
she has a nice facebook friend. watch his name. He is from Grignon !!
https://www.facebook.com/alexi.molliex
Jean-Claude
BRUN, 2ème Adjoint et Conseiller Communautaire
Catherine BRUN,
Secrétaire de Mairie
Bernard OUVRIER-BUFFET techinical staff
Like
I suspected more to this than bad driving.
One report said he went
down 15m another a lot more.
Comité
des Fêtes Roméo OUVRIER BUFFET
Conjoints Survivants Suzanne
OUVRIER BUFFET
29
Oct, 2014 – 3:52 pm
re: libramemoria
Chantal
had 4 children:
Karen, Nicolas, Virginie and Jerome
They all are Ouvrier Buffet by birth.
Karen and Nicolas are brother and sister.
This
is Nicolas:
https://m.facebook.com/nicolas.ouvrierbuffet
http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/p/nicolas-ouvrier-buffet-2355705
Nicolas
is a helicopter technician and worked for the military.
This
is Virginie:
https://m.facebook.com/virginie.darbat
This is Jerome (he doesnt have a social web account). Jerome has a automobile company in Flumet and he has a house in corsica. Now you know that Karen was visiting her brother in corsica.
http://dirigeant.societe.com/dirigeant/Jerome.OUVRIER-BUFFET.22246024.html
http://www.u-corsu.com/ouvrier-buffet-jerome/calenzana_416783
The families Mollier, Ouvrier-Buffet and Brun seem to politically rule a certain area near Ugine, particularly the skiing and winter sports areas Notre-Dame-de-Bellecombe and Saint Nicolas la Chapelle. Lioks like this area is owned and split between Mollier, Brun and Ouvrier-Buffet.
Whether or not the Molliers in that area are Mollier, Mollier-Camus or Mollier-Thomas families, they are basically the same family since the second name was just given due to a marriage into another powerful local family, that name splitting usually happened pre-WW2, about 3-4 generations ago.
http://communes.lesechos.fr/municipales-2014/notre-dame-de-bellecombe
http://communes.lesechos.fr/municipales-2014/saint-nicolas-la-chapelle-73
http://communes.lesechos.fr/municipales-2014/flumet
The best family collection you will find on the friends list of that girl.
https://www.facebook.com/alexis.mollier.9
They’re all there:
Mollier-Thomas
Mollier-Camus
Mollier
(plenty)
Ouvrier-Buffet
Brun
Also the families Mongellaz and Jaquet are obviously intermarried with the Molliers.
These few but prominent families rule and own the alpine winter sports areas Notre Dame de Bellecombe, Flumet and Saint Nicolas la Chapelle.
MN
Read
here on CM my investigation from sept 2012.
Search that CM link
for “Brice Mollier”.
Brice
Mollier is from that very family in Notre Dame de Bellecombe and in
sept 2012 he worked for the French embassy in Romania.
Do you
remember Zaid’s phone call with Romania?
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/not-forgetting-the-al-hillis/comment-page-87/
copy from that CM link but there was more on that link regarding Brice Mollier:
Roger
Mollier (Sylvain’s father?) is from Notre Dame de Bellecombe.
Roger
André MOLLIER
Parents:
Joseph François
MOLLIER 1894-1936/
Hortense Marie Louise OUVRIER
BUFFET 1897-1986
Sylvain’s grandfather seems to have been a victim of WW2.
Thanks to that guy i found a Mollier ancestry. Unfortunately for no apparent reason, none of the current generation is listed there. It just stops with the previous generations. Pity!
This guy should know it because he created that ancestry:
this is the genealogy up to SM’s father Roger Mollier. Good overview.
I Am sure we have been told that Eric Devouassoux owned multiple properties in this skiing area and was also related to the family Ouvrier Buffet.
Shooting of Marcel Desbiolles May 12, 2012 by Matthew Voisin
About
the shooter Matthew Voisin, from Bellavaux, Haute-Savoie
is it
really true that the police have released this man,
until his
court case?
If so that is astonishing because there is a
“possiblity” he is a multiple killer.
Murder
solved more than two years after the fact
Thursday, October 16,
2014 at 15:40
Last Monday, a 32 year old man was arrested at his home Bellevaux. He was the author of the shot that May 12, 2012 fatally injured Marcel Desbiolles. The septuagenarian was shot in the chest while he was in his garden. Man arrested says he realizing anything.
The survey was conducted by the police of the Research Section of Chambery. © Fotolia.com
During
his 42 hours in custody, the alleged murderer Marcel Desbiolles told
the police that two and a half years, despite numerous press articles
on this news item at any time “he did the reconciliation. “The
case dates back to May 12, 2012. That day, Matthew Voisin, now 32
years old, wants to test the new ammunition he purchased for his gun.
However, the shooting of the town of Armoy is closed. The hunter then
sees a target in a straw yard and opened fire. “That’s all,” he
says. According to his statement, he did not realize he was injured
Marcel Desbiolles.
Punishable by five years in prison
If
the accidental nature “is no doubt, however the lack of awareness
seems hard to believe,” admits a source familiar with the matter.
To go back to the shooter imprudent, investigators have relied on
such munitions used, unusual, long distance balls. Matthew Voisin, an
employee of the company Evian Water was indicted for manslaughter
with the aggravating nature of failure to assist a person in danger.
He faces up to five years in prison. While awaiting trial, he was
released and placed under judicial
supervision.
http://www.francebleu.fr/infos/infos/haute-savoie-un-meurtre-elucide-plus-de-2-ans-apres-les-faits-1856322
you
can walk from the camping site La Solitaire du Lac (SAH camping site)
to the house of Marie Claude Mollier and to the houses of Andre and
Pierre Voisin. All situated in St. Jorioz.
yes.
the Voisin family has a strong centre in Lyon. Pierre Mollier was
born in Lyon, too.
However,
they have second centers in St.Jorioz and in Evian, too.
The
camping site in St.Jorioz had been used by SAH as their second
camping site. From there you can walk within 10 minutes or drive
within 5 minutes to the houses of Mrs. Mollier, Andre or Pierre
Voisin (both of them mentioned in Q’s obituary link) who all live
within 200 meters of each other and only 1500 meters from La
Solitaire du Lac camping.. Camping
Europa, where the al Hillis had been forst, is in St. Jorioz, too.
It’s only 2 km from the houses of Andre Voisin, Pierre Voisin and
the house of Mrs. Mollier, who is the daughter of Jean Mollier ans
Mrs. Voisin.
Tim Veater
@NotForgettingFrenchBashing
27
Jan, 2015 – 12:06 pm
“Weave al the tallent they’re is ear,
im shure the Chevaline case (slaughter of the horses) Will bee solved
an he timesoon.”
Had we had access to all the evidence and resources of (at least) two European States I think the question would be beyond doubt. In admitting “this was the perfect crime” EM is also holding up his country and justice system to ridicule, yet the fact there has been no criticism of him, let alone suggestion he be replaced PROVES he has backing to the top of the system. It means he is doing precisely what his political masters expect of him. If he wasn’t you can be sure you wouldn’t see him for dust apros pos Petraeus in the States or now the whole intelligence top brass in Argentina (apparently).
We have now had, in the space of a couple of years (at least) two incidents that shout black arts and clandestine activity involving elements of national security and foreign policy objectives. Chevaline and now Charlie Hebdo have many points in common. Indeed one could almost say they are two sides of the same coin. Both present cases of savagery that mark them out and guaranteed to get wide coverage and universal “shock/horror” response. They both involve issues surrounding relationships to Muslims and Jews and their respective home states. But importantly they both show evidence of manipulation and falsehood for ulterior motives. However there are also contrasts that signify different objectives.
In the former the alleged rationale and gunmen are advertised from the very beginning. This besides an act of terrorism is clearly an attack by Muslims targeting very specifically Jews and “Free Speech”. Of course how the security services were able so quickly to identify the individuals responsible, yet at the same time claiming ignorance of their activities, is deeply suspicious and hardly credible. It turns apparently on the laughable suggestion of one of them helpfully leaving his identity card behind in the second escape car.
Then we have the Boston style mobilisation and “lock-down” leading to a dramatic car chase (pure Hollywood) and “successful” but inexplicable “shoot to kill” policy, announced as the intention to “neutralise” the suspects prior to knowing the precise circumstances requiring it.
Contrast this to Chevaline where the almost exact opposite in method and outcome is apparent. In this case despite being on the scene almost immediately there is no identifiable escape car, no abandoned car ever, no traced car ever, no chase and of course no confrontation with the suspected gunmen. Rather than advertising suspects and victims secrecy surrounds both. There is little evidence of “mobilisation” or “lock-down”, indeed there is an almost casual “everything as normal” approach to local security, almost as if (!) the authorities know, no further danger is present.
In the former case everything is out there, the criminals are swiftly and precipitously dealt with, with little or no need for forensics or evidence. In the latter even after over two years, silence, secrecy and despite all the wonders of modern criminology, nothing of significance to report, with either confused or bungled forensics throughout.
There is however one common and compelling factor to both incidents and that is both undoubtedly reveal what can only be described as intentional false information being issued by the State. This is crucial to understanding the underlying reason for both events, even if it unable to identify specific persons or organisations behind them. As soon as State organs lie or misinform you can be sure the situation is not as straightforward as they wish you to believe – in the former case that this was offended Muslims seeking revenge on western free expression, or in the latter a criminal act lacking purpose that just happened to accidentally involve a passing local cyclist in the cross fire.
It was statement regarding the initial call that alerted me to what could not be made to fit the timeline, and which has never been subsequently explained, despite unlimited opportunity to do so, that alerted me to official mischief. This was compounded by many more as we have discussed at length. The case for misinformation and cover-up is in my book, proved beyond doubt. Nor despite two anniversary “press conferences” has the opportunity for clear and precise description been seized.
Now in the CH case there is also evidence of official malfeasance, yet the reaction by european and world leaders proves this cannot be an isolated event, but carried out with the knowledge and approval of the rest. “Rest” not including rather obviously the BRIC or Muslim countries which rather says a lot. Clearly this cannot be viewed as a little local affair, nor I suggest Chevaline either, involving of necessity the same state organs.
There are many suspicious aspects of the Hebdo attack that mirror others such a Sydney and Boston (the para military response, the television coverage, the orchestrated public response including available printed slogans in their thousands, the immediate availability of video that went viral, domestic and foreign policy decisions in the legislature on the back of it etc) but facts that clinch one way or another this was a state orchestrated event relates to inconsistencies that can be proved. As with Chevaline, it is photographic and video evidence that proves the lie.
So in the case of Hebdo we have in particular three sets of photographic or video evidence that were immediately circulated on the internet suggesting either amazing preparedness or luck. More importantly all of them show either manipulation of falsehood that cannot be reconciled with more or different sources.
It is now clear that the video from the roof of the Allee Verte building has been edited to remove a posse of uniformed personnel advancing down it. It also has raised other issues relating to others on the roof wearing bullet proof vests etc.
The second video alleging to depict the Muslim policeman as previously enumerated cannot be taken seriously nor really the smiling claimed girlfriend at the subsequent press conference.
The third photo shoot of the alleged abandoned car cannot be reconciled with the subsequent press photos of the police all over it prior to removal. As has been logically and unemotionally proved here using the photographs and Google Earth street view …. the locations though in the same street are literally YARDS apart.
As soon as lies of this nature and importance are proved, nothing in the official version can be taken at face value.
So to conclude, I believe the two events are linked and both evidence official misinformation and choreography but for diametrically opposite reasons and purposes. In the case of Hebdo this was a public psycho-op to influence public opinion against Islamist and “ISIS” world view and for greater state intervention and repression against them and colaterally the French population although this is kept carefully hidden. In the case of Chevaline the objective is opposite but related: to HIDE the facts and to neutralise identified individuals with probable Muslim State or historical terror links essentially against Jews or the Jewish state of Israel. In both cases the people doing the killing show incontrovertible evidence of military training. Who the people were firing the guns is not at all clear but in both cases it is highly likely they have received official protection whilst others have been blamed. Oh just one other common factor: the hero. Every such event has to have one. In Chevaline it was of course (before even the full facts were known) BWM; in Hebdo we had at least two – Lilian Lepere and Lassana Bathily who rather conveniently came from Mali (comments passim). Not to mention the need for the “sacrificial lamb” the significance surely does not need to be explained, always appears as well from Kennedy’s assassination (the policeman, ditto Boston, ditto Hebdo plus others including son of leading Jewish N African cleric).
Same murky coterie of people ready to kill to secure the strategic objective in which one way or another a variety of Western states are implicated.
The car location analysis is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSkXiv_XHac
Craig
Murray 13.2.15 Michael Norton
12
Feb, 2015 – 3:23 pm as with most of the Chevaline case, the
situation as regards post mortems has not been clearly described. The
investigating/prosecuting authorities both sides of the Channel, have
been intentionally opaque in this case. I have often posed the
question why this was so, and challenged it but of course no one
takes any notice of me. They had a perfect opportunity with the first
anniversary “press conference” that was no such thing. Indeed EM
got quite annoyed when asked a few simple questions. The second
anniversary press conference, when given the official opinion that
this was the “perfect crime unlikely to be solved”, the rationale
for with-holding information was even less. Specifically it is not
clear what autopsies were carried out in France on whom and more
importantly what the findings were in detail. It is not clear if the
requirement to embalm the English/Swedish/Iraqi victims was imposed
before they were transferred to Britain. (It is not inconceivable
that this requirement was lifted at the request of the British
authorities) Nor are we absolutely sure whether the Home Office
pathologist went to France and worked independently or in consort
with his French opposite number, or whether with or without this, he
performed a second quite separate examination when they were back in
Britain. These questions obviously have important practical
implications. We remember the way in which Princess Diana was
embalmed thus making the issue of pregnancy impossible subsequently
to resolve. In a number of respects the consequences would have been
the same with the Al Hillis if it had been done, for example. There
was an opportunity for all this to be definitively cleared up at the
British Coroner’s Inquest but as far as I am aware it wasn’t. It
throws up the question what right does the public have to know. In
practice, none. The information is regarded as belonging to the state
in both countries, who are under no obligation to reveal what they
know. Some may be revealed but unless someone presses the Coroner,
around whom there is a theoretical principle of transparency, it may
never be revealed to the general public. I believe the Inquest was
managed in such a way to reveal certain facts but maintain secrecy
surrounding the most important ones. It was designed to give the
impression of openness and rigour, when the opposite was actually the
case. So what do we make of all this? Basically your questions MN
remain unanswered and may continue to be so. Unless they are WE shall
never be able to get a better picture of what happened and perhaps
why. As long as there is uncertainty and only speculation the
perpetrators are safe, unless the authorities successfully pursue
them, which seems not to be the case. From my own memory of events it
was announced that autopsies would be carried out in France
immediately following. From the British Inquest it would appear
likely a second independent autopsy was carried out in Britain on
three of the four victims. What is clear, and has never been
explained, is how the British and French reports of injuries from
bullets could be so significantly different nor what other tests were
carried out on the bodies or witnesses in either country. The details
of the differences I discussed at the time the Coroner’s Inquest
was reported in the media so won’t tire you by repeating even if I
could remember them!
Tim Veater
Suhayle Saadi they certainly have the capability and probably have been engaged in similar missions wrapped in secrecy so we seldom learn about them, but I think the way the British reacted after the event rather suggests it wasn’t a British operation. In fact I think it caught them off guard though the UK govt appears to have been complicit in the cover up. I believe it knows but can’t say because to do so would reveal its own clandestine operations and would cause an earthquake in its Franco/US/Israeli diplomatic relations.
Now of course I have high lighted the FORTY YEAR anniversary, almost to the hour, of the Munich Massacre, which linked to OPERATION WRATH OF GOD a targeted assassination programme over at least the next twenty years, possibly longer, and the location of the Al Hilli/Mollier killings in the Combe d’Ire is highly circumstantially suggestive of a connection. The chances of this and other links being otherwise is just too small.
Now another ‘co-incidence’ with another strange twist that may be new to you, partly because the latter part of it has only recently been played out. First, of course it was not only forty years (to the day from the massacre in Munich – and consider the earlier Munich echoes such as the agreement by that name signed in the early hours of 30 September 1938 and where the Nazi Party was founded in 1919) but it was forty years to a repeat Olympic Games, this time in LONDON, running from 25 July to 12 August 2012, less than a month prior to the killings.
The Olympic event was considered a great success and it passed off peacefully without major incident. However this is not the whole story. Behind the scenes there were big problems on security and in the end the army had to be brought in besides alleged missile cover on the top of neighbouring buildings. There was also a very noticeable militarisation of the police that has been blamed on Muslim extremism but may in fact have been focused on other threats.
Now the recent ‘twist’ that may have more substance to it than meets the eye and has been admitted. It relates to the trial and imprisonment of Michael Shrimpton for an alleged nuclear bomb hoax at the Olympics. See here:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2828974/Barrister-bomb-hoax-calls-Defence-Secretary-claiming-London-2012-Queen-targets-court-hears.html
He telephoned MP Philip Hammond to tell him that a bomb stolen from a sunken Russian submarine had been smuggled into the country and could be used to blow up the opening ceremony of the London Olympics and kill the Queen! This might appear fantastical were it not for the fact that Shrimpton was a Barrister and part time judge who had high level contacts with the security services. He gained notoriety for making uncontested revelations about Ted Heath’s (gay) sex life including his connections with Savile and the disappearance of young men from childrens’ homes. Some take the view that the charges were actually about shutting him up.
Whether the substantive issue of a nuclear device in London, and whether as claimed the Americans unilaterally seized and disarmed it, have never been properly discussed or settled. Nevertheless the fact that less than a month after the games ended SAH set off almost certainly for a meeting deep in France probably at the behest of British SS, may not be unconnected.
Tim Veater
Then just too spookily 1919 to 2012 of course equals 93 years. 93 years since the formation of the Nazi Party; 74 years since the Munich Agreement; and 40 years since the Munich Massacre. Strangely at his trial Shrimpton refused to reveal his sources but said they included ‘someone in MUNICH who lunches with the Pope.’
I have discussed the central importance of 40 before but I will spare you again. However 93 has particular significance to a subject that has gained great notoriety in recent years – that of satanic ritual abuse and its alleged infiltration to the highest levels of the elite, that has again raised its head in Hampstead. I will resist the temptation to detail how a secret world of sex and worse has been used to blackmail and control national and international policy and events.
The number 93 is of great significance in Thelema, a religious philosophy founded by English author and occultist Aleister Crowley in 1904 with the writing of The Book of the Law. He and it hold a central position in the whole occult/masonic world. “In the Greek language, they are Thelema (Will) and Agape (Love). Using the Greek technique of isopsephy, which applies a numerical value to each letter, the letters of each of these words add to 93.”93 has become a kind of shorthand for, “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.” See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/93_%28Thelema%29
Moving on at first sight 74 appears to offer little significance except for this: 74 is the number of the French department of Haute-Savoie! Well there’s a thing.
Tim Veater
Just to continue on that line of thinking Suhayl (and anyone else following it!) I and no doubt others, in our various ways, have tried to sift fact from fantasy, truth from lies, piecing together whatever fragments that have escaped from those in the know or have been discovered by others, to create a convincing explanation of events, which from the first have been tantalising. Many theories have been expounded but none have quite fitted the lock to let us into the inner sanctum. As with the lock on my bike, sometimes in the dark we just have to keep trying combinations until we find the one that fits, allowing it to spring open.
I have long argued, in common with many others, that this case went far beyond a domestic, random murder, that involved clandestine activities at a national governmental level. This was confirmed from the first by the quite exceptional response by the British Government. The fact that this was not even considered a possibility and considerable effort was put into trying to sell an alternative explanation, full of false trails and misinformation (in common parlance -appropriately a French derivation – lies) confirmed it, in my mind at least. Others continued to pour scorn on the idea.
Of course since then we have witnessed a series of quite extraordinary ‘terrorist'(?) events around the world, recently culminating as far as France is concerned in Hebdo and Flight 9525, neither of which have had convincing official explanations, and may well have been ‘False Flag’ events to add to all the others in the last decade and a half. Certainly it would appear that France, in sharp contrast to other European nations at the moment, appears to be the focus of attention, although of course 9525 was a German plane with mainly German passengers. It cannot be co-incidental can it, that France/Germany have provided a phalanx of opposition to American/Zionist snooping on the one hand and confrontation on the other, not to mention the pro-Palestinian and Iranian stance? The far east targets (you may have noticed that Michael Shrimpton (you can hear him being interviewed by Tony Gosling here:https://wewhoopposedeception.wordpress.com/2013/01/21/michael-shrimpton-on-tony-goslings-radio-and-its-analysis-in-a-british-german-soviet-light/) suggested Fukushima was caused by a nuclear explosion linked to his London Olympic claims?) Malaysia similarly fell foul of the CIA/Mossad caucus that some have linked to MH370 and MH17.
So, getting back to Shrimpton’s main thesis and whether this might throw some light on Chevaline, he appears to place most of the West problems on a rump Hiterian National Socialist Secret Service which he claims got control of both British and American politics and intelligence organisations using in large part incriminating sexual proclivities. It is perhaps no accident, and incidentally a confirmation that his interpretation is not wholly preposterous, is that the prosecution included a charge of down-loading under-age pornography, that he later proved was added AFTER the equipment was seized. Never the less the Bucks Herald in a comprehensive character assassination job on behalf of the government, headlined him as “Pervert Barrister”. (see: http://www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/more-news/jail-for-pervert-barrister-who-said-nuclear-bomb-would-blow-up-the-queen-at-the-london-olympics-1-6566127) In such manner, individuals speaking inconvenient ‘truths’ are disposed of in Britain today. (You might also like to read an article I did on ‘In Terrorem’ here:http://veaterecosan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/interrorem-exposed-ifthese-labouring.html)
Anyways….. here’s the Chevaline extension to his take on the world of espionage and intrigue. What if it was linked to that alleged plot in London, that if it had been carried would have challenged 9/11 for impact. Or was it being used for blackmail purposes? What if that fateful trip to France by the Al Hillis was a MI5/6 attempt to get to the bottom of it on the promise of information? If it had happened, it’s pretty sure it would have been blamed on either Iran or Russia as a false flag, the consequences of which would have been unimaginable. Could it explain Mollier’s role as an agent of German intelligence embedded in nuclear technology and France/Iran relations? Mollier father and son appear to have strong nation/socialist links in the mould of Le Pen currently subject to deep division between father and daughter on the subject of WWII treatment of the European Jews. Nor can we overlook the ties between Germany and Israel supplying nuclear powered submarines.
The killings were as much a gesture as they were retribution. Britain, France and Germany all struck in one operation? This may not be as fanciful as it first appears.
From: https://murderiseverywhere.blogspot.com/2013/09/almost-year-ago-in-french-alps.html?m=1
Almost a year ago in the French Alps
*(*The black dot is the family's campsite, the red dot is the murder location.)
A passing cyclist, Frenchman Sylvain Mollier, 45, a father of three who lived nearby, at first the police believed, appeared to have stumbled across the scene, was also shot and murdered in the attack, his body found at the rest stop by the BMW's front wheels.
In the timeline of these murders on the country road, only several minutes (investigators believe) went by before a French hiker - who'd heard shots from a hiking path - discovered the scene and immediately called in Emergency on his cell phone. Bret Martin, a British man, a former RAF pilot, resident of
the area, was driving on this road, briefly saw a motorcycle zoom ahead and then the BMW with a man lying shot on the ground by it's wheels.
Martin pulled off the road by the BMW and discovered the daughter Zainab, outside on the ground bleeding, and attempted CPR. By the time the local police arrived Martin looked in the BMW and saw three victims: her father, mother and grandmother dead. The local police cordoned off the area, called in the police from the region HQ. In turn the regional police HQ who visited, were loathe to 'contaminate the scene', and called Paris - requesting a crime scene squad and homicide investigators. This quartet of murders was beyond their expertise and according to later reports they stood by afraid to investigate and paralyzed by ensuing orders from Paris to wait. When the Paris teams arrived it had been hours before any investigator had looked into the BMW and when the bodies were being taken out four year old Zeena was discovered on the back seat floor hidden under her dead mothers skirt cowering and traumatized after eight hours.
Nonetheless, initial French police reports pointed strongly towards the murder being a professional 'hit'. In particular, since Mr al-Hilli, his dentist wife Iqbal, 47, and his mother in law Suhaila, 74, were each killed with a so-called double tap of two bullets to the head each — a classic hit man’s touch.
Police inquiries into the case spread to a number of other countries including Iraq, the former Yugoslavia and Switzerland. The motorcycle Martin remembered seeing (as he said for a brief second) before he saw the BMW and the sprawled body of Mollier, has still not been identified or discovered. The two girls were in the care of a foster family which French investigators at first suspected was a contract killing. Just last month, the girl's aunt has gained custody over her nieces. Zainab, recovered from a coma after several months in hospital had suffered trauma and amnesia and being then seven years old only remembered part of the events. At one time attention was being focused on the possibility the gunman was a lone psychopath, rather than a professional hitman hired as a result of a financial dispute or international espionage. The combined forces were investigating three lines of inquiry, focusing on Hilli's work, his family and links to his native Iraq.
Cara - Tuesday
- AnonymousNovember 20, 2013 at 11:00 AM
Tim, Have a look at this. I think it clearly shows that the AH's car left these skid marks.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636811_fr_333658y.jpg
There is, as you say, a lot of unanswered questions. Not least about the total silence regarding the well dressed man who had a heated conversation with Saad AH the day before the murders. Not even a whisper of it from the Panorama program. Very strange
From: http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-shooting-saad-al-hilli-sylvain-mollier-part-7/
Lynda
6-16-2013 at 12:05:10 – “Thankyou Peter, I agree, the implication is that the way they were shot was ‘professional’, I think it was anything but ! ”
What I find difficult to comprehend is that the static aftermath of the killing could lead the PROFESSIONAL, EXPERT French investigators to many differing interpretations. These have included “professional killers”, “military background”, “more than one shooter”, “lone shooter”, “psychopath”, “escaped mental institution inmate”, “on a motor bike”, “in a 4×4″, on foot”, “amateur”, “planned assassination”, “unpremeditated”, “random act by a deranged killer”, Serbian paramilitaries”, “cheap Rumanian killers”, “local killer”, “planned from Britain” and so it goes on!
Why not say “We haven’t got a clue” or alternatively “we think ANYTHING is possible”?
One of the most inane comments by EM was that he was sure the person
“Without doubt we are looking for someone who has killed before, someone who puts no value on human life.”
Then he adds:
“The shootings were a random act by a deranged killer.”
” If it was done on a contract (as a professional hit) it was very badly done. We are looking for unbalanced people – capable of extreme violence.” (By Patrick Sawer10:04AM GMT 17 Nov 2012 Telegraph)
NB these observations are made after two months of intensive police work. They are quite unbelievable in the light of all the information that must have been garnered by then.
These statements portray what? Naivety? Stating the obvious? More importantly how to reconcile an interpretation of “imbalance”, “randomness” and a planned assassination which can be neither? And what supporting evidence does he give for it being “very badly done”? In what way was it badly done?
Four adults were shot dead in a very short space of time, despite the significant logistical problems, in a very remote location, escaped almost without trace, leaving no DNA evidence, and not a SINGLE suspect arrested after more than 9 months. Well if this is evidence of a killing being “very badly done” God help the French people when a well executed professional killing happens!
@ Lynda
6-16-2013 at 19:43:46 re.
Fourth photo @
SURPRISE! SURPRISE!
I happens to be a white Mitsubishi Pajero Reg, 9253 ZS 94 (?)
Here is an example of the same model for confirmation:
http://images.euanmotorcompany.co.uk/vehicles/mitsubishi-pajero-4×4-169815686-640×480.jpg
Bit of a co-incidence?
Now as to yours of Lynda
6-16-2013 at 16:09:08 I’m pleased to confirm I’m perfectly calm. (Well at the moment.) I have also read that interview with EM that you recommend.
So you see no reason for any of the victims to be shot? That’s fair enough. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. My opinion is however that it is naive as Maillaud’s appear flailing. I think you are in danger of not being able to suggest a motive with there not being one.
If you are right it means that the killings are down to bad luck on the part of the victims, of their meeting being wholly incidental, and the killer(s) totally irrational. What are the chances of that do you think? Now add in the difficulties of the location and the expert and determined nature of the killing, the way in which they effected their escape and the apparent absence of leads and clues to such an extent that the best brains, large teams, computer and forensics experts of two countries have been unable to point a finger, suggest a motive or arrest a suspect, and you have a highly unusual, even unique, criminal event.
It would also mean, as Maillaud has suggested, a deranged psychopath who murders for no reason, managed to leave no trail, and is still on the loose. Why then no further murders of a similar kind? Why the relaxed attitude of Prosecutor and Gendarme knowing the killer is local and likely to strike again at any moment? Why no general warnings to householders and visitors – not even to stay clear of Combe d’Ire and similar remote spots?
In addition if you are correct you have to explain why such a killer, presumably just killing for killings sake, would refrain from shooting Martin also. Would he not wish to eliminate any chance of witnesses reporting the scene before escaping? If his motive was blood lust why spare Zainab or Didierjean/Bossy even. Would he have shown such self discipline. Would he not have exhibited some perverted or sexual element? Would he have resisted the temptation of secreting himself in the woods to kill even more as they appeared on scene?
Would unarmed personnel have been dispatched to the scene by controllers if they believed a psychotic killer was still on the rampage having already dispatched four. If they did they were surely negligent? Contrast with the French response in the case of Mohammed Merah.
Then you appear to think that all the conflicting theories that have been thrown out by Maillaud are normal and not in the least surprising. Forgive me, I don’t.
Lynda
6-17-2013 at 09:57:02 you just don’t appear to work through the consequences of your assertions. You also appear to accept official reports without question and overlook official inaccuracies that could not have been accidental. You say “@TimV, my husband worked with Charles Pasqua in the 1960′s at Ricard. ” Given the dubious record of this man including allegations that he benefited from Saddam Hussein , I am wondering if your husband’s employment has affected your judgement?
You say: ” The timings of the calls to the emergency services, I say calls as I think there were two, very logical, the first at 15:48 upon meeting Brett Martin made on Bossy’s phone, then second after he’d turned around his car, gone up to the clearing, his 6/7 minutes, then a second call on the way back to the car, giving the actual details of what he’d seen, this one being around 16:00.”
First, two telephone calls have never been reported from any source, official or otherwise. What is your evidence for this claim.
Second, you pass over the fact of the initial lie, if WBM is to be believed, that Martin made that first call. I say “lie” advisedly as how could such a profound mistake have been made accidentally? Martin was English and could hardly speak French. There is no way he could have been confused with the French speaking “Didierjean”, or that the mobile phone numbers could have been confused either.
Third, you make no reference to the fact that the claim that WBM had made the initial call until almost a week later when he denied it himself. Nor has the mistake ever been properly explained.
Fourth, if WBM did not make the call the only other option that we know of, is that “Didierjean/Bossy” did it. However this is not without its own credibility problems. All the initial reports of the mysterious “Mr D.” stated he “approached Chevaline after 4 pm”. This was never officially corrected by Maillaud, the police or “Didierjean” himself. So bearing in mind he still had to drive up the Combe to the fateful meeting with Martin as described and additional time to comprehend and phone (even were it possible to do so) there is no way this could have happened at 3.48 unless the detailed initial account was very inaccurate.
Fifth, in fact “Didierjean’s” account makes this even more impossible because he says his initial call to the emergency services did not take place until he had visited the site with Martin and then returned down the valley to obtain a mobile signal. Even erring on the cautious side this must have added at least another 10 or 15 minutes to the timeline.
Sixth, you have nothing to say as to how “Didierjean” could have transmuted to “Bossy” without a word of explanation from the Authorities. All media assume they are one and the same but even this significant fact has not been confirmed.
Seventh, if the 3.48 call is kosher, it inevitably means both the principle witnesses have lied at some point. If neither of them made a call at 3.48 (I am not disputing either of them could have made a call later) the Maillaud’s statement is inaccurate. However in either event SOMEONE must have alerted the emergency services about then because they were on scene soon after 4 pm and travel time must be allowed for.
Eighth, initial reports had WBM telephoning as soon as he arrived on scene at 3.48. On the basis of his own account and other calculations he must have arrived about fifteen minutes before this. Why? By his own account he tends to and moves Zainab, checks and moves the heavy Sylvain and checks his pockets, moves around the car, smashes the window and turns the engine, checks on the other occupants going around the other side of the car BEFORE he even attempts to use his phone. So even if he had managed to get through at 3.48, which of course he denies, he would have had to have arrived at least ten or fifteen minutes before to accomplish all he did. However to this must be added the time he cycles off to meet Didierjean/Bossy if the latter placed the call making it impossible for him to have done so by 3.48 as claimed.
If you think my reasoning is flawed perhaps you will very objectively show how. I am very open to a rational explanation if there is one.
You will notice on this one there is no mention of a car – they were “walking” up the Combe. This discrepancy/variation has never been explained either. However he confirms a call had not been made at the time they met and that he did not call the police himself until after he had returned and assessed the murder scene.
This was the initial Telegraph report:-
“By Henry Samuel, in Annecy11:51AM BST 11 Sep 2012
Philippe D, 41, was walking up the forest road of Combe-d’Ire near the village of Chevaline with two female friends when the unnamed British RAF veteran came careering down the path.
“This panic-stricken man was coming back down the road,” the Frenchman whose surname has been withheld for legal reasons told Le Parisien newspaper. “He explained with difficulty in bad French that he had seen a drama a bit higher up.”
“He wanted to phone the emergency services. I didn’t understand whether he had a mobile or couldn’t get a signal in that place.”
The Frenchman then followed the Briton to the car park where four people, three from the British al-Hilli family and French cylclist Sylvain Mollier, 45, had been gunned down moments earlier.
“I understood straight away. I approached the car. I touched nothing but could see there was nothing to be done (for the victims). There was no sign of life,” he said.
He then saw seven-year old Zainab al-Hilli lying in the recovery position yards from the car, where the Briton had placed her.
A prosecutor had praised the Briton’s “nerves of steel” for tending to the girl, who is recovering in hospital in Grenoble.
“She didn’t respond to our calls. I clapped my hands but she didn’t react,” Philippe is cited as saying. “I even said a few words in English as I saw the car was registered in Great Britain. But nothing happened. For me, she was dead,” he said.
A few seconds later, he went down the slope a few yards to phone the emergency services. The prosecutor said they received the first call at 3.48pm.”
By 9.26 pm the same reporter for the same paper now adds “Philippe D, was the first person to call the emergency services”
Now there is a subtle change of emphasis on when the call was made:
“”There was no sound. It was like a horror film,” he said. “One of those TV series where everything starts with a murder.
“Except this time we were the actors and we didn’t have the remote control to change the channel switch.
“When we saw that nobody answered our calls and apparently everyone was dead, we were totally spooked.”
“The hiker, who called the emergency services, then saw seven-year-old Zainab al-Hilli lying in the recovery position just yards from the BMW, where the British cyclist had placed her.”
The Guardian has this:
“Didierjean said he followed the British cyclist for a few metres before arriving at the car park. “I approached the car. I didn’t touch anything, but I saw at once that there was nothing more to be done. There was no sign of life.” He said he heard no shooting and “seen nobody passing … not a car or motorbike”.
” I saw the car was registered in Great Britain, but there was nothing. To me, she was dead.”
He then went back down the hill leading to the Alpine beauty spot near Lake Annecy to call the emergency services.”http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/11/french-alps-shooting-cyclist-girl
By the 11.9.13 a car has appeared in ” Didierjean’s” account:
“Speaking for the first time on Tuesday to French newspaper Aujourd’hui France / Le Parisien, the witness, known as Philippe D, recalled realising something terrible had happened when their car was approached by a panicked cyclist – the British former RAF serviceman who had discovered the crime scene.
“He had to descend the mountain road in order to get a signal to call the police. Emergency services arrived within minutes of his call.
Unlike the British cyclist, Philippe D did not see a dark-coloured 4×4 and a motorbike driving away from the crime scene at the time of the murders.”
“http://www.france24.com/en/20120911-france-chevaline-annecy-claygate-alps-murder-witness-like-scene-film-murder-al-hilli
This is repeated by WBM who relates “300 or 400 yards down the road I met a car”
Thanks for the explanation although I was up to speed on the police/gendarme thing although I get the impression both lots were called into play to man the crime scene and carry out enquiries from photo’s or am I wrong on that?
As regard being armed that was my point. All the reports get the sequence of arrivals as being fire/rescue first (unarmed) ambulance (unarmed) doctor (unarmed) police armed but unused as far as we know. In other words the first three arrivals were unarmed and very vulnerable if a crazed killer was still on the loose. So I merely raise the question, were standard operating procedures followed or did the unarmed personnel go in ignoring them, bravely indifferent to their own safety? Or were they directed there by controllers, confident in the knowledge that the killer(s) were safely out of the way?
As to that white Pajero it would appear it was given preferential treatment as most vehicles were blocked at the bottom of the Combe. I can’t quite make out what the fit young man is wearing but he appears to be in conversation or some such. Not in gendarme uniform though.
So a Paris registered vehicle that would seem to have some semi official function to be allowed there but quite an old model (1994?) and one that strangely fits the early description of vehicle sought by the police, in part at least. I don’t think for one moment it’s the killer’s vehicle but these aspects are rather strange don’t you think?
This is six days after the event when the French authorities were presumably aware that their story that WBM made the initial was going to be contradicted by the man himself. “Philippe Didierjean” gives his exclusive to Le Parisien.
“This Wednesday, September 5, Philip D., 41, planned to hike with two friends in the Bauges on this side he did not yet know. They planned to spend the night in a mountain chalet. But then they rode quietly drive the forest road of Combe d’Ire on the heights of the village of Chevaline, close to the place called Martinet, they saw arise shortly before 4:01 p.m. cyclist distraught, first witness of the massacre that killed Saad al-Hilli, his wife, the mother of the latter, as well as Sylvain Mollier, a family cycling. ”
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/les-confidences-d-un-temoin-du-drame-de-chevaline-11-09-2012-2159640.php
The time is brought forward from earlier accounts to “shortly before 4.01 pm”. Now don’t you find that strange wording? “Shortly before 4.01”. Why not just before 4? A very precise time moderated by a generalisation. Quite inexplicable! And why if as is claimed he made the first call at 3.48 did he not put the time at 3.45 if not earlier? After all the time they first SAW Martin had to be at least five minutes before the call was recorded, because we have to allow time to stop the car, get out, calm the distraught Martin down, get the gist of the message from the “pigeon French”, get the phone out, dial the emergency number and wait for it to be answered. So to make a call at 3.48 they would have had to meet not later than 3.43.
NB this assumes an immediate telephone call and completely ignores the fact that every report suggested he didn’t make the call until he had reached the crime scene, let alone travelled back down the Combe before he did so.
Now the problem is that if in fact they met before 3.45 where is the time for WBM to do what he says he did before the meeting? If we allow 10 or 15 mins minimum it pushes his arrival time to the one hard fact: shots at 3.30. This is what I have said all along. But perhaps even more significantly it means that either he or Didierjean are mistaken about the retreating 4×4 and motorcycle, as they could not have failed to pass on that narrow road.
So either Didierjean was there for the 3.48 call and passed the killers(?) vehicle on the way up, or he got there later and couldn’t have placed that first call.
12.9.12″We left by car for a hike in the Wallows,” he recalls. Usually, it goes through the other side. This is the first time we stayed in the valley Ire. In the small amount of forest road, we met a man who drew our attention. His hands were covered in blood. He made us understand that it was something serious happened a little higher. Obviously, he wanted to give the alarm, but he had no mobile phone network or not. The parking Swift was not far, so we called the fire department and we got to see what we could do … ”
http://www.republicain-lorrain.fr/france-monde/2012/09/12/annecy-on-a-failli-croiser-le-tueur
I think for the first time reference was made to “hands covered in blood”. Of course shooting a pistol is not associated with bloody hands. This, if true would have to come from close physical contact with the bloody person. WBM said that he handled both ZAH and SM so in one sense this can be explained. his DNA would presumably appear on at least two of the victims. But why no blood stains elsewhere – on his clothes for instance? And then we have the small matter of him wearing gloves….
WBM said he cycled 3/400 yards before he met them which conflicts with PD/B;s. However a later report clarified they drove car to within 50 metre turned around and walked the remaining. WBM says ZAH was covered in a lot of blood. PD/B says precisely opposite. Just small details.
Lynda
6-17-2013 at 21:00:34 You say:
“I thought we’d covered your double sighting of a 4×4, it didn’t exist, maybe a car was seen heading in the direction of Martinet behaving erratically, in the direction of was a few kilometres away !”
I have already given you all the references to a 4×4 OVERTAKING him on the way up, and PASSING HIM ON THE WAY DOWN. To which we must add the recent appeal for the BMW X5 passing him ON THE WAY UP at 1 K in at 3.20 pm. This latest appeal by French AND British doesn’t say the BMW passed him on the way down, but if not the only other explanation is that it continued on into the prohibited zone. This you will note was the explanation “Didierjean/Bossy” came up with for not seeing/passing WBM’s green 4×4.
As for the 4.01 pm referred to it is in the reference I posted.
There can be no rational explanation for the multiplicity of contradictions put out by Maillaud other than incompetence or intention. This extends to even the objective facts of bullets and bullet wounds.
It started with the change from 15 to 25 which may be partially explained by a developing situation (ie the casings were under the car and they hadn’t yet moved it?) However no such mitigation can be extended to cover the fact it is now reported as 21 NINE MONTHS later. It has been stated ten of the bullets were were outside whilst the remaining were inside the victims or vehicle. How does this equate with the former conclusion?
Then we have EM’s definitive press conference statement that three out of four victims were shot in the head. This became all. We had both all shot twice in the head and shot once. All shot at least three times. Sylvain shot UP TO seven times.
That SM had been shot first and most immediately denied by EM. That the shooting indicated a professional killer; a very incompetent professional; an amateur; a madman; a psychopath who had killed before; an escaped mental hospital patient; a Serbian Paramilitary; a cheap Rumanian assassin; and latterly someone who knew what he was doing because “hardly a shot was wasted” – this a precise contradiction of earlier opinion that bullets were sprayed indiscriminately!
Was it a Skorpion, a Luger PO6 or PO8, 7.65 or 9 mm or something else? Did it make a hole the size of a two Euro coin (25+ mm)? Was it one or two (both opinions have been stated by French police)? The shots provide no information then the lab says SM was shot first then returned for the fatal shots last. No trace of the gun has turned up nor apparently do the casings indicate a weapon used previously. No one in the French/Swiss under-world/military/gun outlets identified a possible match despite the distinctive matching piece? No further events of a similar nature or using this weapon? Were magazines used and if so how many and what happened to them? Were WBM’s clothes/ hands tested for residues?
Have you ever seen the like?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s9z4z/profiles/france-shootings
“But on Wednesday 5 September at around 15.40, having driven to the Martinet Car Park at the end of the winding Combe d’Ire Road in nearby Chevaline the family were brutally attacked.”
“The French authorities, working with officers from the Surrey and Sussex Major Crime Team, can reveal that they are now looking for a 4×4 vehicle, possibly a grey, black or dark coloured BMW X5. Police cannot be specific about colour at this stage.”
“The vehicle was seen some 20 minutes before the shootings on the Combre d’Ire Road around 2 kilometres from the car park.”
Crimewatch is a respected BBC programme, always produced with the help of the UK Police Force, but the time of the incident has changed by 10 minutes.
I posted earlier a link regarding the photos from Le Journal de Dimanche of the 14th October here is the copy: Three photos taken between 15:00 and 15:10 infront of typical farmhouses and chalets of the region in Arnand, which adjoins Chevaline.
Chevaline : la chronologie se resserre
Trois photos de famille ont été prises entre 15 heures et 15 h 10
TUERIE Les gendarmes chargés de l’enquête sur le quadruple assassinat de Chevaline ( Haute- Savoie), survenu le 5 septembre dernier, ont trouvé dans l’appareil photo de la famille Al- Hilli des clichés pris entre 15 heures et 15 h 10 dans le hameau d’Arnand, mitoyen de Chevaline. Saad Al- Hilli, sa femme et leur deux filles de 4 et 7 ans posent devant des fermes et chalets typiques de la région. C’est la grand- mère qui a pris les photos…….
Sorry Max and Lars, here is another reference to the first phone call, okay it is the JDD, and just for good mesure they note that Laurents (the builder) name was changed (funny, it turned out to be his name, where as TimV misses why Philippe Didierjean became Bossy – my guess, so as not to be identified by the media until he was ready).
“15h48 : les secours sont alertés
Grace au téléphone de Philippe D., un randonneur de la région qui arrive en voiture avec deux amies juste au moment où Martin s’apprête à rebrousser chemin pour chercher de l’aide, les pompiers d’Annecy sont prévenus”
Google translate does this:
“3:48 p.m.: The emergency services were alerted
Thanks to phone D. Philippe, a hiker in the region who arrive by car with two friends just as Martin is about to turn back to seek help, firefighters are warned Annecy ” to turn back to seek help, firefighters are warned Annecy ”
Which is:
The emergency services were alerted
Thanks to the telephone of Philippe D, a hiker from the region who had arrived by car with two friends just at the moment Martin had turned back to seek help, the Emergency Services were warned.
Guys, I don’t know if it is true as there is so much copy and paste but it could be, couldn’t it ?
And finally, Laurent the builder, I have found referenced that he said he saw the BMW pass a ‘good half hour’ after they had returned from lunch, please don’t think that they started back at their post at 14:00, more likely 14:30 add the ‘good half hour’, after 15:00……they were behind in the job and probably overegged their enthusiasm !
Lynda @ 08:08:30 – some of the information you are looking re the car passing WBM on his way up can be found in the BBC interview of WBM.
That is also the source for WBM’s denial of making the 15:48PM phone call as well as the account of what he did on the scene.
Personally, I am extremely suspicious of the original account provided by LP of PD arriving “a little before 4:01” going through a complete re-write – about 8 months later(!) to put him on the scene earlier – this time in the person of Phillipe Bossy – who “almost” punched WBM upon arrival.
There is no way of reconciling the two french accounts provided nearly 8 months apart. And that’s true both in the original french or the English translation.
To me it looks like a deliberate re-script – perhaps an attempt to provide at least “some” plausible timing to that 3:48PM phone call. Never mind that originally WBM was supposed to have called – which he then denied – blowing a 2 Euro size hole in the favored french story line. Voila! enter Bossy – the “real” Didierjean – up by car AND foot (check it out – helps get him there faster), telling a tale that seems to strangely respond to some of the very questions raised on this blog and others. I especially liked the 6-7 minutes part. Like Goldilocks – it’s just right>>>>
In the end – it’s about who and what each of us believes. we have virtually no reason to believe the French investigator accounts – the contradictions, retractions and plain nonsensical assertions were just too numerous to list (though Tim V gave it the old college try). I am not trying to guess why the flabbed-up tales, only to mention – yet again – that flabbed-up they were. For me that forecloses the question of trust. I’ll continue to listen to what they tell but with the idee that there’s method behind the madness.
Do I believe WBM? oh well, that’s the 1 M Euro question, isn’t it? All I know is that he was spirited away from France in record time – especially for such an important witness – and appears to be none the worse for wear (ie, above suspicion). Not saying he done some bad deed. just that he knows stuff, being such a good ex-RAF and all.
As to the motive(s) for the Chevaline killings – I believe we don’t really know because we are not supposed to know. And just as well – whoever was willing to kill so many so ruthlessly, hurt a little girl etc. is still out there, Luger and all. “They” killed so the motive will not be known and in that this was a most professionally executed killing, one that will take at least “10 years” to solve – right, Eric?. Speculation is fine, of course and is no doubt welcome. As long as no one gets too close?
All that being said, i kind of liked Max’s theory of the “deal interrupted”. I mean, it does not conflict with the facts as we know them (probability is, of course, another story). Still, the post-incident behavior of the investigating authorities shows very little urgency to follow this or indeed any other thread (except the ones that lead away from France…).
This is the post that caught my eye on the Craig Murray blog on the thread about London Metropolitan University posted by ‘anon’ –
Anon
6 Sep, 2012 – 3:44 pm
Is this true??
Defence Advisory Notice is in effect here
06.09.2012 14:41
Today at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.
No mention of his links to the Security Services
No mention of his links to Iran
No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing
The only place you are going to read about the real facts of this story are on sites like Indymedia.
Manchester based Journalist
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/london-metropolitan-university/#comments
Good summary of official output yet containing some important errors and omissions I would suggest. Martin also reported he saw a 4x4, never identified. He didn't "immediately called in Emergency on his cell phone", in fact he said he tried but had no signal. There is disagreement whether Zaid al Hilli was covered in blood or bleeding profusely. Mollier wasn't lying in front of the car as can be seen from the blood stains on the ground adjacent to the car and from Martin's evidence though for some reason he was moved. Presumably the local police didn't open the car for EIGHT hours because they were ordered not to not because they were afraid to. Nor has it been explained why local specialists from Lyon were not drafted in. You make no mention of the Peugeot 206/306 leaving the scene dangerously or the BMW x5 seen approaching at 3.20 or that the French statement that the tyre skid marks were made by the Al Hilli car which is clearly impossible. There is no obvious reason why Maillaud ruled Mollier out so insistently when there is so much evidence to rule him in or why after even a year none of the outstanding questions were answered at the news conference. Clearly there is much more to this case than meets the eye.
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